Interview by Craig Rosen

If the Sex Pistols were punk rock's version of the Who, and the Clash its Rolling Stones, then Buzzcocks were British punk's Beatles.
      Guitarist/vocalists Pete Shelley and Steve Diggle didn't scream about anarchy or white riots, but rather harmonized about "Autonomy" and the personal politics of relationships, from orgasm addicts to falling in love with someone you shouldn't have fallen in love with. Frustrated by a lack of label support, and burnt out from the release of three albums and 14 singles in a mere four years, the 'Cocks called it a day in 1981. Shelley went on to some solo success with "Homosapien" before the band regrouped in 1989.
      Although longtime bassist Steve Garvey and drummer John Maher have since retired, Shelley and Diggle are still at it. Currently, they’re celebrating the re-release of the band's first three albums — 1977's Another Music in a Different Kitchen, 1978's Love Bites, and 1979's A Different Kind of Tension — all of them augmented by singles, rare demos, and live versions. In this exclusive Shockhound interview, Shelley talked to us about Buzzcocks' storied career.

SHOCKHOUND: How involved were you the reissues?

PETE SHELLEY: This was all done by Tim Chacksfield, who is one of those rare people — an A&R man who loves music. He was with us at United Artists until about 1979. He's always been a big fan of Buzzcocks, because he was our A&R guy at the time. He knows the material, and he made sure he got the right tapes from the library and made sure that everything was right.

SHOCKHOUND: I understand you guys have been doing live gigs in which you play the first two albums in their entirety. How's that going?

SHELLEY: It's a novelty, really. A lot of the songs you do when you do an album you maybe play once or twice, and then comes the next album. You have to make room for new material, so some of the songs get neglected; even though they're good, you never get the excuse to pull them out and dust them off. It was amazing doing it. We never played "Late for the Train" live, and it ended up being one of the big favorites of the whole show.

SHOCKHOUND: Let's go back to the early days. After you released your debut, the Spiral Scratch EP, your singer/guitarist at the time, Howard Devoto, decided he was going to leave the band. How'd you react to that news?

SHELLEY: It was just the case [of], “OK, I'll do the singing.” Steve wanted to play guitar rather than bass, and I had a friend that was a bass player, so it was all sorted in about five minutes. I mean, it was a bit worrying at first, but not for much longer than it takes [to say], "Oh, we'll do it like this then."

SHOCKHOUND: The end of the band's first run was an interesting time. You were experimenting with your sound, but battling some personal demons and some drug abuse. What do you remember about that period?

SHELLEY: We got the rock n' roll out of our system very early. It got to the point when it wasn't all that much fun. We had signed to United Artists and had people who were working with us that we enjoyed working with, and then when it changed to EMI it became people who were working for EMI and not for the band. It's not the name above the door, it's the people inside who are doing the work.

SHOCKHOUND: In 1989, Buzzcocks reunited after you had some success as a solo artist. How'd the reunion come about?

SHELLEY: It all came about because there were rumors that Buzzcocks were getting back together. My manager was in New York and bumped into our agent, who was Ian Copeland, Miles Copeland's brother. Ian said, "I hear Buzzcocks are back together." My manager said, "What do you mean?" And Ian said, "I thought you'd be in touch with me because I want to do a tour." So my manager said, "What kind of tour?" It ended up being a three-week tour. So the band that split up got back together. Then John [Maher] said he didn't want to carry on, because he had his own business, so we held auditions and got Mike Joyce, who used to play in the Smiths, and we had him for two years. It's always like there's new things to do, and that keeps the excitement. It just hasn't been the right time for us to say, “OK, we'll pack it in now.” Real deep down we're really proud of what we do, and really passionate, and it's good fun as well.

SHOCKHOUND: Has the reunion given the band a second chance to be appreciated by those who might have missed Buzzcocks the first time around?

SHELLEY: Definitely. The first time around, even though we were appreciated, it was almost hidden from us, the level of appreciation. In the time we were apart, that's when Singles Going Steady was doing its magic. In the meantime, our popularity spread. When we got back together, it was great because everybody knew what to expect. It was a reunion with the audience as much as a reunion for the band.

SHOCKHOUND: Buzzcocks have kind of taken on the role of the respected elder statesmen of punk…

SHELLEY: Oh, no. We haven't taken on that role.

SHOCKHOUND: But over a decade ago, bands like Pearl Jam and Nirvana were inviting you to open for them. And you were on the Warped Tour.

SHELLEY: We may be doing some Warped Tour dates this year as well.

SHOCKHOUND: How do you feel about being the band with experience?

SHELLEY: In some ways it's like second nature to us. It doesn't seem as if the experience really counts so much. Although I suppose if you look at it all lined up in front of you, it does seem quite daunting.

 

SHOCKHOUND: What did you think about Nirvana?

SHELLEY: They were excellent. They sounded just like on the record, which impressed me. Every night they'd come into our dressing room before we went on, and they'd be at the side of the stage watching us, and then we'd be at the side of the stage watching them. And then we'd have a party in their room afterwards because they had better catering. [Laughs]

SHOCKHOUND: Did you sense Kurt Cobain was troubled at the time?

SHELLEY: Not really. I think it came as a bit of a shock to almost everyone. You never know what's going to happen until it does. He wasn't out there going, "I'm going to kill myself." I don't think it was a cry for help, because if it was, there were a lot of people around that could have helped him. It's very sad.

SHOCKHOUND: Your music has been featured in films — not necessarily your versions, but covers by the Fine Young Cannibals and Pete Yorn. How do you feel about that?

SHELLEY: It's interesting that they pop up. A lot of people tell their kids to watch Shrek and then "Ever Fallen in Love" pops up. It's always good when people enjoy the songs, really. That's one of the reasons you do it, so people will hum your songs.

SHOCKHOUND: They've also turned up in some commercials. The first time I heard "Ever Fallen in Love" on a Toyota commercial I almost fainted. I couldn't believe it was coming out of my TV set.

SHELLEY: I was over in the States when that happened, and it was a shock to me as well. Either somebody had forgotten to tell me about it, or I forgot they told me about it.

SHOCKHOUND: How did you feel about it once it set in?

SHELLEY: Well, I'd rather they play my songs than Phil Collins. [Laughs]

SHOCKHOUND: How about "Everybody's Happy Nowadays" in the commercials for AARP?

SHELLEY: On a similar vein, in Britain just before Christmas there was an advert for people thinking about getting their pension and they used "Everybody's Happy Nowadays" as well. That AARP one was a really funny advert. I think it's just your demographic, really. Buzzcocks are a “baby boomer” band, and anybody of a certain age will identify with us. I'm not one of the punk Taliban who say you can't sell any of your songs and you can't make any money.

SHOCKHOUND: That's funny you say that, because I was just about to ask about the Sex Pistols and the Clash. They were great bands, but they seemed like tough guys and thugs whereas Buzzcocks seemed so much more refined and down-to-earth.

SHELLEY: Yeah, I supposed it's because we tried to control our image. It never seemed to be the right thing to do to compete to see who could be tougher, because you had the Sex Pistols and the Clash and they were trying to out tough each other. We just did what we did best, really. We didn't really try to compete on other people's terms.

SHOCKHOUND: You have a song called "Nostalgia" where you sing of, "Nostalgia for an age yet to come." Are you nostalgic at all for the old days?

SHELLEY: No, not at all. I much prefer it now. It was awful back then. I don't want to go back there. [Laughs]

SHOCKHOUND: The song "Fast Cars" always makes me laugh; it's so anti-rock n' roll.

SHELLEY: In a lot of ways the early punk stance was to be anti-rock n' roll, because that wasn't the life which we were living. We don't have convertibles going down the freeway; it rains too much in Manchester for that. We got on the top deck of a double-decker bus. We have a different way of seeing the world. One of the things about punk was to write about what you know, rather than the cliché of what rock or a song should be about.

SHOCKHOUND: Speaking about knowing things, how were you familiar with Ralph Nader, who you namedrop in that song?

SHELLEY: He wrote the book Unsafe at Any Speed, about how all the cars with the big tailfins were all deathtraps.

SHOCKHOUND: What did you think when he ran for President?

SHELLEY: He did seem to queer the pitch a little bit, didn't he? In hindsight, it probably would have been better if he didn't, but it's America and you can do these things.

SHOCKHOUND: A lot of the early Buzzcocks songs have sexually ambiguous lyrics. Later Morrissey would take that on.

SHELLEY: Yes, he used to come to our office and talk to our managers for hours and hours. He'd pick up all these things like a sponge.

SHOCKHOUND: Were you out about your sexuality during Buzzcocks' initial run?

SHELLEY: Yeah, I didn't seem to be that much of an issue at the time.

SHOCKHOUND: I know it was more prominent when "Homosapien" came out. Some people called that a "Gay disco anthem."

SHELLEY: That's conforming to the stereotype, isn't it? A lot of the people who were early adopters to punk actually came through the whole glam rock part four or five years before from Marc Bolan to David Bowie. So that whole ambiguity was what was considered to be quite normal, really.  Not in the rugby-playing, heavy-drinking fraternity crowd, but it wasn't as outrageous as people would imagine.

SHOCKHOUND: Anything else that you want to add?

SHELLEY: I'd like to inspire people to come see us while you can. It's not like we're getting any younger. But the thing I always say — if the Rolling Stones are still going, that gives us a few more years.